I was the odd hall kid in grade school with long hair and didn't go to church but due to a psycho 3rd grade teacher I became the best. Despite being the poorest kid, probably the least well dressed i quickly became the fastest smartest one in class, and excelled in making friends, by 5th grade I was top student in the school and only 2nd to a year older kid who played soccer and sailed. 6th grade I was best in all things inthe dassroo on the playground and had completed college level courses before the end of gradeschool including calculus- Jr, high school didNt have classes for me so I served as T.A. In most classes. I still got credit for class but all I had to do was help other studentS while the teacher kicked their feet upon their desk and get paid.- 7th was thr last grade i passed '
" .. a lot of people talk about destroying the system ~ it's like no, you just make it irrelevant."
Great delivery, what Anthony said here, so funny and true. 🤓
“ … you’re not competing with me ~ you just joined the mission ~ you’re just not in my flock ~ congratulations, we got some pros, you can be an owl, you can be bluebirds, you can be cardinals, you can be a condor I like the look of vultures on you ~ WHY ARE YOU A BAT?
… at that point the only competition is who’s the best at serving their community ~ and at that point the only way to be better than the best is to be ~ THERE ~ I need you to manufacture some macaroni ~ " 😂
Independence and Separation dont have to play the same way. An Independent household can still interact with, build with, be close to or far from any community, person, plan, or place it wants, because its no bound down by needs it can't answer on its own. We often learn to see that Independence as synonymous with Idividual, which REALLY twists the matrix of options into comparison, conquest, and contempt and outright abhors collaborating with anything that "helps the enemy".
Separation becomes the norm through the acceptance of Individualist beliefs and practices until one day you wake up in an Atomized Society where asking your neighbor to come over for a beer is considered odd if its not a holiday granted to you both by the powers that be.
By fostering the Independence of people as members of a community of the Whole, the person's needs can be met by the inherent infrastructure, a small town with a variety of farms and businesses can offer a lot of opportunities for interaction and collaboration as a natural part of being what it is. Breaking that town into a slew of enclaves that have everything they need made in house is one that actively hampers anything that relies on collaboration or collective awareness.
The goal then, at least for me, is building the social infrastructure in a way that lasts, and then letting people arrange themselves as they see most reasonable and pleasant. In a way, we aren't doing much to guide, teach, or push people in any direction. We are setting up the means for everyone to see a goal that fits them, collaborate with people who see the same goal, and pursue that goal without it bringing harm to others.
I think you may have misread my question but I like the info you put forth on the subject you thought it was. My question was between relationship types; interdependent and codependent. In a codependent relationship, which usually starts inconspicuously as someone’s generosity or someone helping someone else, but without something in return. That concept sounds like an unconditional show of support, which is a lofty perspective by an ego, because the reality is, if you don’t ask for something in return (even the smallest thing or action) you create a weak relationship that will fail eventually probably with uncomfortable results and un seemingly changed feelings which is no fun for anyone on either side of the coin. An example would be a person of some wealth with a love of people, refusing to let other pay for dinner and not accepting any offers to help in any other way because “they’ve got plenty and we’re lucky in life why not share that luck?” This person creates codependencies under the guise of being a good and generous person. The receiving individuals get something for nothing and possibly multiple times. They never get to feel as “big” of a person as the so called generous one, and they never have to do something to get the generosity so there is no pull and they can take take take. The respect between people in this relationship withers and dies. Whereas in an interdependent relation each has a contribution (as said, no matter how small or large) which is given and a benefit received in return. This combo is tied to each other, which is inherently strong and the concept of give and take vs all give or all take will always win due to this inherent strength and the others inherent weakness. It’s not necessarily as absolute as put it but even in the simplest form the difference are true.
This is all a bit heady for me. It’s a feeling, in the end. A feeling of both freedom and connection, joy and depth. The house is a spark to help remembrance. Oh yeah.. we ARE interdependent. There IS natural giving and receiving. As Anthony said, parents don’t charge their kids rent. We stop calculating relationships and simply enjoy them.
I think I see your worry, and I can best respond with an abstraction before making the point concrete.
Consider the sun, moon, Earth, and all the little critters that eat plants. They all make a cohesive stream of using the energy the sun emits and in general it all flows in one direction. The sun never asks for a thing because it needs only to emit. The moon reflects just because it does, the life on the ground uses both those things to sustain itself on the Earth. The ecosystem all feeds into the living things at the bottom which then experience life and maintain the energy they collect. In that system, it makes sense to not worry about reciprocation because everything is considered infinite.
Where your example points in to a space where the rational agents doing the giving and receiving are consciously doing so in expectation of reciprocation, in possible awareness of the imbalance, or using the imbalance for nefarious means, but in each case the issue is toxic behavior, not the flow itself. The need for boundaries, limits, and modesty apply and its the lack of those things that make people take action that toxifies the flow and thus festers into the abuses the scenario fears.
There is also the need to recognize that healthy people do not exist in a vaccuum. A person who, as stated, buys dinner for everyone may be doing so for reasons the participants in their generosity never get to know about. Some cases could be to cover a friend who had no money but wanted to be there, it could be a covert apology to someone at the table, it could be them trying to keep a door open so thejr friends and family know they can always chat over dinner or any combination of things, but it still lies with them to know what a healthy boundary on their spending is. Same with giving away manual labor, emotional energy, or keeping someone's hope alive, if one does so for their own reasons and maintains health in doing so, their limit is whatever they have to give.
For those who take and take and take, what can be done of them that hasnt already been tried? Much like the unreasonably persistent Glacier Pigeon, we must simply adapt and overcome the situations in which they apply until someday the Leopard Seal of Boundaries comes to chase them away.
I was the odd hall kid in grade school with long hair and didn't go to church but due to a psycho 3rd grade teacher I became the best. Despite being the poorest kid, probably the least well dressed i quickly became the fastest smartest one in class, and excelled in making friends, by 5th grade I was top student in the school and only 2nd to a year older kid who played soccer and sailed. 6th grade I was best in all things inthe dassroo on the playground and had completed college level courses before the end of gradeschool including calculus- Jr, high school didNt have classes for me so I served as T.A. In most classes. I still got credit for class but all I had to do was help other studentS while the teacher kicked their feet upon their desk and get paid.- 7th was thr last grade i passed '
I see you, Jason. 💚
🩵✨
THE COMIC RELIEF ALONE ~ 😂
Excerpts:
" .. a lot of people talk about destroying the system ~ it's like no, you just make it irrelevant."
Great delivery, what Anthony said here, so funny and true. 🤓
“ … you’re not competing with me ~ you just joined the mission ~ you’re just not in my flock ~ congratulations, we got some pros, you can be an owl, you can be bluebirds, you can be cardinals, you can be a condor I like the look of vultures on you ~ WHY ARE YOU A BAT?
… at that point the only competition is who’s the best at serving their community ~ and at that point the only way to be better than the best is to be ~ THERE ~ I need you to manufacture some macaroni ~ " 😂
We are laughing into freedom over here !
Loving your sharing of the journey you two are representing ~
I'm allergic to paperwork too, Anthony 🤭
Astraea! I have an affinity for cats🤗 🥰
The paperwork alone is reason to leave the system !
Thanks for being on the journey with us ❤️
Isn’t she lovely?
♫💧💞💧♫•**¨* 💨
But it is generating interdependent relationships? Or codependencies? -
Interdependence. No codependence.
This is the right question.
Independence and Separation dont have to play the same way. An Independent household can still interact with, build with, be close to or far from any community, person, plan, or place it wants, because its no bound down by needs it can't answer on its own. We often learn to see that Independence as synonymous with Idividual, which REALLY twists the matrix of options into comparison, conquest, and contempt and outright abhors collaborating with anything that "helps the enemy".
Separation becomes the norm through the acceptance of Individualist beliefs and practices until one day you wake up in an Atomized Society where asking your neighbor to come over for a beer is considered odd if its not a holiday granted to you both by the powers that be.
By fostering the Independence of people as members of a community of the Whole, the person's needs can be met by the inherent infrastructure, a small town with a variety of farms and businesses can offer a lot of opportunities for interaction and collaboration as a natural part of being what it is. Breaking that town into a slew of enclaves that have everything they need made in house is one that actively hampers anything that relies on collaboration or collective awareness.
The goal then, at least for me, is building the social infrastructure in a way that lasts, and then letting people arrange themselves as they see most reasonable and pleasant. In a way, we aren't doing much to guide, teach, or push people in any direction. We are setting up the means for everyone to see a goal that fits them, collaborate with people who see the same goal, and pursue that goal without it bringing harm to others.
What he said ⬆️
I think you may have misread my question but I like the info you put forth on the subject you thought it was. My question was between relationship types; interdependent and codependent. In a codependent relationship, which usually starts inconspicuously as someone’s generosity or someone helping someone else, but without something in return. That concept sounds like an unconditional show of support, which is a lofty perspective by an ego, because the reality is, if you don’t ask for something in return (even the smallest thing or action) you create a weak relationship that will fail eventually probably with uncomfortable results and un seemingly changed feelings which is no fun for anyone on either side of the coin. An example would be a person of some wealth with a love of people, refusing to let other pay for dinner and not accepting any offers to help in any other way because “they’ve got plenty and we’re lucky in life why not share that luck?” This person creates codependencies under the guise of being a good and generous person. The receiving individuals get something for nothing and possibly multiple times. They never get to feel as “big” of a person as the so called generous one, and they never have to do something to get the generosity so there is no pull and they can take take take. The respect between people in this relationship withers and dies. Whereas in an interdependent relation each has a contribution (as said, no matter how small or large) which is given and a benefit received in return. This combo is tied to each other, which is inherently strong and the concept of give and take vs all give or all take will always win due to this inherent strength and the others inherent weakness. It’s not necessarily as absolute as put it but even in the simplest form the difference are true.
This is all a bit heady for me. It’s a feeling, in the end. A feeling of both freedom and connection, joy and depth. The house is a spark to help remembrance. Oh yeah.. we ARE interdependent. There IS natural giving and receiving. As Anthony said, parents don’t charge their kids rent. We stop calculating relationships and simply enjoy them.
I think I see your worry, and I can best respond with an abstraction before making the point concrete.
Consider the sun, moon, Earth, and all the little critters that eat plants. They all make a cohesive stream of using the energy the sun emits and in general it all flows in one direction. The sun never asks for a thing because it needs only to emit. The moon reflects just because it does, the life on the ground uses both those things to sustain itself on the Earth. The ecosystem all feeds into the living things at the bottom which then experience life and maintain the energy they collect. In that system, it makes sense to not worry about reciprocation because everything is considered infinite.
Where your example points in to a space where the rational agents doing the giving and receiving are consciously doing so in expectation of reciprocation, in possible awareness of the imbalance, or using the imbalance for nefarious means, but in each case the issue is toxic behavior, not the flow itself. The need for boundaries, limits, and modesty apply and its the lack of those things that make people take action that toxifies the flow and thus festers into the abuses the scenario fears.
There is also the need to recognize that healthy people do not exist in a vaccuum. A person who, as stated, buys dinner for everyone may be doing so for reasons the participants in their generosity never get to know about. Some cases could be to cover a friend who had no money but wanted to be there, it could be a covert apology to someone at the table, it could be them trying to keep a door open so thejr friends and family know they can always chat over dinner or any combination of things, but it still lies with them to know what a healthy boundary on their spending is. Same with giving away manual labor, emotional energy, or keeping someone's hope alive, if one does so for their own reasons and maintains health in doing so, their limit is whatever they have to give.
For those who take and take and take, what can be done of them that hasnt already been tried? Much like the unreasonably persistent Glacier Pigeon, we must simply adapt and overcome the situations in which they apply until someday the Leopard Seal of Boundaries comes to chase them away.